I'm in the early stages of planning a canoe trip with my wife and a bunch of
friends for the lower Rio Grande. The trip probably won't happen until the
autumn, but I'm looking into logistics right now. We'll probably put in at
La Linda and take out at Dryden Crossing. I have some basic questions for
anyone who has run this reach.



First, is it doable in hard shell canoes? Participants will range from very
experienced to somewhat novice. Of course we won't make a couple novices
run any class III or higher rapids, but are portages possible and not too
painful for some rapids?



Next, can anyone recommend an up to date guide for the river?



Finally, I'm in Tucson so I'm pretty familiar with the U.S.-Mexican border
issues. Over the past few years, the border area has gotten pretty
dangerous out here. In fact I often feel more comfortable running rivers
and camping in Mexico than camping in southern Arizona. I'm not worried
about undocumented aliens, but the coyotes and drug runners can be pretty
ruthless. Anyway, I've read a few things about potential crime on the Rio
Grande. Can I assume that because this stretch is pretty isolated we just
need to keep our eyes open and stay near our equipment or is that naïve?



Thanks in advance.



pjbphd


--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd at cox dot net

Hi pjbphd:
I've run the stretch from LaLinda to Dryden about 15 times as a guide,
but the last time was about 10 years ago. However I might be able to
answer most of your questions.

An autumn trip might be a rough trip. The water drops through the
season, with most of the spring flows coming in from Mexico rather than
the US, which is not dam-controlled. As the mexican waterlevel drops,
the river becomes very rocky, teh flow rate decreases drastically, and
some of the more runnable rapids (Hot Springs, Upper Madison) become
total portages. My trips were all in March, and in the lower water
years, the river was downright bony. In high water years, the trip was
quite easy and by far the most fun. I am not certain, but my gut
feeling is that it might even be unrunnable in the fall.

It is absolutely! doable in hardshell open boats. I have only ever done
it in a canoe, and guided paddlers from near-novice level to experts. A
complete novice would be in trouble down there, as there is a severe
remoteness factor, but as long as the majority of the trip had
fair-to-middlin skills and could use good judgement, it would be a
great trip. Every risky rapid is portageable with easy to see portage
trails, but the difficulty of the rapids increase gradually at a pace
that helps develop skills at an excellent rate. The first few days are
all class 1-1+, the next few days have a few interspersed class 2's,
the next few days have a few easy class 3s, the next few days have a
few class 3+ or 4-s that can be portaged. The only *mandatory* portage
is Lower Madison, and its a brute. Search this newsgroup under
"riverman" and "lower Madison" for an old river tale about running that
stretch in an emergency.

The hikes and scenery are wonderful. I've never had any border problems
with anyone. The 'illegal immigrant' routes that cross the river are
near Hot Springs rapid, and you should time your trip to pass there
midday, so that you aren't camped near there. Other than that, you
won't see a soul unless its a sheep herder.

There is abundant cow**** everywhere on the mexican side, so US side
camps are cleaner. However, the geology seems to give the flat camps a
mexican-side preference. There are possible campsites everywhere, but
if you see a scenic ledge somewhere, grab it. It beats sleeping in a
field surrounded by cow ****. In the inner gorge, campsites are rarer,
but much more scenic. Watch for grassfires, as the riverside rushes
seem to catch fire spontaneously and you could lose your camp.

You can get up-to-date river guides at the ranger station at the park
entrance as you approach La Linda. My guidebooks are all in a box
somewhere, but there is a series of books on waterproof paper out there
somewhere that are very good.

Post any more questions you have here, and I'll be glad to reply.

--riverman

Thanks for your information. It was very helpful.



Let me give you a little background and ask a few more specific questions.



I consider myself an intermediate paddler. I've canoed rivers like the flat
water portion Green in Utah (Stillwater and Labyrinth Canyons), the class II
and III San Juan in Utah and New Mexico, the Rio Yaqui in Mexico and a few
others. If we do the lower Rio Grande, most of us will be in Old Town
Appalachians or something similar. I am very comfortable in wilderness
situations so that aspect of the lower Rio Grande doesn't bother me. It's
the flows and possible inability to portage/line boats that concern me, well
O.K., my wife.



I've looked at the hydrograph of the Rio Grande and it does confound me. I'm
trying to understand why high flows are in the autumn. The headwaters are
in the mountains of Colorado and New Mexico which makes me assume that
snowmelt in the spring would be high flows but apparently that's not the
case. There must be some weather patterns circulating in the Gulf of Mexico
that cause things to peak in the fall; perhaps the same conditions that
cause hurricanes.



Anyway, is it considerably safer and perhaps a little less technical to
float the river in the spring or summer when flows are down? Also how
drinkable is the water? I've used water filters before, but if pesticides
or heavy metals are a problem, I assume we'd need to bring all our drinking
water.



On a paddling.net discussion forum someone relayed a horror story they had
about getting caught in unexpected high flows in the fall and being swept
down river so quickly they couldn't even scout the rapids. They flipped all
their boats in Upper Madison and he was washed downstream for 3.5 miles
before being able to right his boat. Another of their party had a heart
attack due to the stress of the trip. This posting has freaked my wife out
considerably. Now I'm into fun and adventure as much as the next guy, but I
don't want to go all Donner Party on my vacation. My question is, was this
guys story an aberrant situation that can be avoided by floating the river
another time or is what happened a serious possibility any time of year.



I'll look forward to your posted reply.



Thanks



pjb



"riverman" wrote in message
oups.com...

Hi pjbphd:
I've run the stretch from LaLinda to Dryden about 15 times as a guide,
but the last time was about 10 years ago. However I might be able to
answer most of your questions.

An autumn trip might be a rough trip. The water drops through the
season, with most of the spring flows coming in from Mexico rather than
the US, which is not dam-controlled. As the mexican waterlevel drops,
the river becomes very rocky, teh flow rate decreases drastically, and
some of the more runnable rapids (Hot Springs, Upper Madison) become
total portages. My trips were all in March, and in the lower water
years, the river was downright bony. In high water years, the trip was
quite easy and by far the most fun. I am not certain, but my gut
feeling is that it might even be unrunnable in the fall.

It is absolutely! doable in hardshell open boats. I have only ever done
it in a canoe, and guided paddlers from near-novice level to experts. A
complete novice would be in trouble down there, as there is a severe
remoteness factor, but as long as the majority of the trip had
fair-to-middlin skills and could use good judgement, it would be a
great trip. Every risky rapid is portageable with easy to see portage
trails, but the difficulty of the rapids increase gradually at a pace
that helps develop skills at an excellent rate. The first few days are
all class 1-1+, the next few days have a few interspersed class 2's,
the next few days have a few easy class 3s, the next few days have a
few class 3+ or 4-s that can be portaged. The only *mandatory* portage
is Lower Madison, and its a brute. Search this newsgroup under
"riverman" and "lower Madison" for an old river tale about running that
stretch in an emergency.

The hikes and scenery are wonderful. I've never had any border problems
with anyone. The 'illegal immigrant' routes that cross the river are
near Hot Springs rapid, and you should time your trip to pass there
midday, so that you aren't camped near there. Other than that, you
won't see a soul unless its a sheep herder.

There is abundant cow**** everywhere on the mexican side, so US side
camps are cleaner. However, the geology seems to give the flat camps a
mexican-side preference. There are possible campsites everywhere, but
if you see a scenic ledge somewhere, grab it. It beats sleeping in a
field surrounded by cow ****. In the inner gorge, campsites are rarer,
but much more scenic. Watch for grassfires, as the riverside rushes
seem to catch fire spontaneously and you could lose your camp.

You can get up-to-date river guides at the ranger station at the park
entrance as you approach La Linda. My guidebooks are all in a box
somewhere, but there is a series of books on waterproof paper out there
somewhere that are very good.

Post any more questions you have here, and I'll be glad to reply.

--riverman

Wow, what a story! Sounds quite aberrant to me. Then again, river
runners like to summarize a river with the historical worst-case
scenario.

If you've run the Juan (another river I've canoed about 20 times), then
nothing on the Rio Grande will be a problem. The style (drop pool) and
difficulty level are quite similar, with the exception that the RG has
some mandatory portages and the Juan doesn't. And the portage trails
are easy to find and follow. And there are very few powerful eddys like
on some stretches of the Juan.

The water levels on the RG are controlled by two inputs: the Rio Grande
draining out of east New Mexico, and the Rio Conchos draining out of
Mexico. Each of these rivers has a different yearly cycle: the Conchos
traditionally ran high in the fall and winter (from rainfall), and the
RG ran highest in the spring (from snowmelt). However, both rivers are
heavily dam-controlled now, and baseline water levels are more a result
of litigation than climate, as there is a court battle going on between
the US and Mexico about the water levels. The peak levels in the late
summer/fall are from seasonal contributions (rainfall, controlled dam
releases, flash floods). But because of an ongoing drought in northern
Mexico, the baseline water level is quite low. The best canoeing water
is after the flash flood (fall) and before the baseline (summer). So
that leaves the best season from November or so, until it gets too low
in May. I prefer the later part of that window, because it avoids late
season thunderstorms and the possibility of flash floods. With your
wife as twitchy as she sounds about it, I would run it during the
spring (Feb, March) when the water levels are most consistent, the
weather is very nice (highs in the high 80s, low 90s) and the
wildflowers are going nuts. About 4 feet is primo.

Have you seen this website? Its a good resource.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/pa...ditions/texas/

The water is completely undrinkable. Its full of farm runoff,
industrial wastes, dead cows and is almost like mud. Bring your water
with you, and plan on refilling at two natural springs along the way
(you will need to pump the spring water, but its clear and won't plug
up the filters). If you swim, keep your mouth and eyes closed.


--riverman

In rec.boats.paddle riverman wrote:
That leaves the best season from November or so, until it gets too low
in May. I prefer the later part of that window, because it avoids
late season thunderstorms and the possibility of flash floods. With
your wife as twitchy as she sounds about it, I would run it during
the spring (Feb, March) when the water levels are most consistent,
the weather is very nice (highs in the high 80s, low 90s) and the
wildflowers are going nuts. About 4 feet is primo.

Hey Riverman, is late January still too early?

My wife and I ran it over Christmas vacation, and it was very cold
at night. Daytime highs might have reached 65F for a few minutes,
but most of the time we spent, it seemed between freezing and 50F.
(This was before we had drysuits.)

The cast for going in November is that few other rivers are running
then, so you don't waste good snowmelt and spring run-off.

Beautiful canyons! The water did not seem as muddy as you say.
I've seen worse, e.g. the San Juan.

Hi Bill:
I remember some hypothermic trips in March, too. It was always a
balancing act, to get on the water early enough to catch the runnable
levels, but late enough so that it wasn't all frosty in the mornings.

Although I've run it a truckload of times, all of my runs were in mid
March so I have very limited year-round knowledge. I have no idea of
what water conditions are like the rest of the year, but in spring,
with dropping levels, there were years that the river banks were mud
flats and there was the occasional dead cow in an eddy. Always lots of
plastic trash in the bushes, etc, from the earlier high water. But the
overall feeling was that it was a pristine, remote and (strangely
enough) clean environment, with unbelievable scenery.

On the other hand, now that I think about it, I remember that the water
quality was variable, just like on the Juan: some years it was crystal
clear and clean. other years we ended up with a 'San Juan Tan' on
everything.

So you ran it just a few weeks ago? Give us a trip report!
--riverman

In rec.boats.paddle riverman wrote:

So you ran it just a few weeks ago? Give us a trip report!

Actually 20 years ago, but here is a belated trip report.

--- cut but do not paste ---

No sh*t, there we were, trying to drive over Deming pass, east of Lordsburg
New Mexico. Our low-slung sedan plowed the accumulated snow on the highway.
We had forgotten chains. Soon the Highway Patrol stopped traffic and told
everybody to turn around. They don't have snowplows down there, because
they seldom get this much snow.

The next day we were supposed to meet at Big Bend National Park to join
a rafting trip on the Lower Canyons of the Rio Bravo Del Norte, known
as the Rio Grande north of the border. We would miss put-in.

The snowstorm ended around midnight, so the road was passable the next day.
We finally arrived at Big Bend late in the afternoon. Fortunately there was
an overnight trip down Santa Elena Canyon the next day, so we joined that.
The weather was pretty nice at first. We camped at a beautiful spot near
the start of the canyon on river left. At night it got below freezing, so
we were happy to have a tent. The next day it warmed up during breakfast,
so our wetsuits were warm enough in the canyon. We scouted Rockslide Rapid
and had no problem running it. Late that afternoon we reached take-out,
where we were shuttled to an official campground before starting a Mariscal
or Boquillas Canyon trip the next day.

Mariscal or Boquillas Canyon (can't remember which) was even more beautiful
than Santa Elena, if that's possible. There were no rapids as cluttered
as Rockslide, but the desert scenery was very park-like in the sections
outside the canyon proper. The canyon was formed of green limestone
rather than the reddish sandstone of Santa Elena.

After the second night's camp, the weather started getting cold. Clouds
came in and although it didn't snow, it looked like it might. My wife
took the oars in order to warm up, and I stomped my feet in the front.
Late in the afternoon on the last day, the clouds finally passed over
and the sun came out again.

Somewhere in there we spotted some banditos on the right (Mexican) side.
They had guns but did not shoot at us. The raft guide said that a few
months back, some rafts had been fired upon. Although nobody was injured,
they got pretty nervous for a while there. And that's no sh*t.